caffienekitty (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
caffienekitty) wrote2007-05-14 12:03 am
caffienekitty) wrote2007-05-14 12:03 am
Entry tags:
SPN META: Never Forget A Familiar Face (SPOILERS FOR Episode 2.21)
Between planning a Mother's Day party-like occurrence and ranting about horrifying incidents on another continent, I've been attempting to formulate a lame meta/retcon.
WARNING! Contains SPOILERS and SPOILERY screencaps (from![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
marishna and Supernatural.tv) from most episodes aired, up to and especially including Episode 2.21
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
Now that we're past the cut, the question that latched on to me and wouldn't go 'way this weekend was; How did Dean recognize Ash's watch? Which lead to this...
NEVER FORGET A FAMILIAR FACE:
Wrist-borne Timepieces in Supernatural
Here's my thought process so far:
First off, exactly how long has Ash had this watch?
Soooo, Ash acquired the watch sometime between "Hunted" and "All Hell Breaks Loose Part 1", and Dean knows the look of it well enough to recognize it as belonging to Ash when it's been through a major fire and covered in sputch.
However, as far as we know, Dean hasn't been at the Roadhouse since the revelation that someone there is leaking info to charming folk like Gordon. From what we've seen of Dean, I can believe easily that he would not go near the Roadhouse or have any contact with it unless Sam was in danger ("Born Under A Bad Sign"), so safe to assume the last time he's physically seen Ash would be "Simon Said"
So, if Ash didn't have the watch at that point, it has to be one Dean recognizes, and knows that Ash has acquired.
At first I thought it might be Dean's old watch (from the "Pilot" missing scene) and he might have given it to Ash after John died and started wearing his father's watch instead. However, Dean is still wearing the same watch from the "Pilot" missing scene. I can't find a cap from the missing scene, and my computer won't do a screenshot while the DVD player window is open, but Dean's watch in the missing scene has a round face with a black rim, same as the watch in "All Hell Breaks Loose, Part 1"
Then I thought it was maybe one of John's old watches, traded for info after John died, but the only one I could find in caps had a white face and a wide leather strap.
Actually... it's still the same watch as the Pilot. John gets a hell of a lot of use out of a watch.
John wasn't wearing a watch in "In My Time of Dying"...
...and I don't see it in the caps from "Devil's Trap", so either he still had it in Devil's Trap and just never put it back on in the hospital, or, in addition to torturing him, tying him down and possessing him, the demons stole John's bloody watch! Bastards! Buuuut... that's a question for another day. One with a great deal more liquor in it.
Anyway, Ash's watch was not John's watch, and John is either so good at looking after his watch that it lasted over 24 years, or he's just a cheap bastard. You decide.
Alright, so, new theory. It's Sam's old watch.
Because it looks a lot like Sam's watch:
Sam's left wrist is camera-shy, due to the whole layering issue, and jacket sleeves that go halfway to his knuckles, but we get glimpses of it all through Season 2:
The latest shot I could originally find of Sam with the watch is in What Is and What Should Never Be, which shot my whole "Sam gave Ash the watch in Hunted in exchange for the psychic kid info" theory in the foot before it even got running.
Aaaand then of course, Sam's watch shows up again...
Which kicks another fine theory and half a plot-bunny out the door. Sigh. So, it's not Sam's watch either.
Leaving me with the only remaining explanation I can think of...
Ash got the watch by some entirely random means, and was so thrilled about finally owning a watch that he snapped a photo of it and pic-spammed his entire address book bragging about it. Which... I can almost see. Sort of.
So, now that I've spent almost an entire weekend looking for screencaps of people's wrists, do I actually think the people who set-up the "Dean recognizes Ash's watch scene" were paying this much attention to it? Um... possibly not... But really that's okay, because it's fun to try and figure stuff like this out.
So, what do you think?
*** SPOILER POLICY ***
*** PLEASE DO NOT POST SPOILERS FOR EPISODES UNAIRED IN NORTH AMERICA IN COMMENTS, THEY WILL BE DELETED. ****
The definition of spoiler for this journal includes info from Ads, Promos, Casting Details, Rumours, and anything which is not strictly derived by analysis of aired episodes.(I.E. THEORY ONLY).
*** SPOILER POLICY ***
WARNING! Contains SPOILERS and SPOILERY screencaps (from
marishna and Supernatural.tv) from most episodes aired, up to and especially including Episode 2.21YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
Now that we're past the cut, the question that latched on to me and wouldn't go 'way this weekend was; How did Dean recognize Ash's watch? Which lead to this...
Wrist-borne Timepieces in Supernatural
Here's my thought process so far:
First off, exactly how long has Ash had this watch?
 Everybody Loves a Clown - No Watch |
 Simon Said - No Watch |
 Hunted - No Watch |
 All Hell Breaks Loose, Part 1 - WATCH |
Soooo, Ash acquired the watch sometime between "Hunted" and "All Hell Breaks Loose Part 1", and Dean knows the look of it well enough to recognize it as belonging to Ash when it's been through a major fire and covered in sputch.
 |
However, as far as we know, Dean hasn't been at the Roadhouse since the revelation that someone there is leaking info to charming folk like Gordon. From what we've seen of Dean, I can believe easily that he would not go near the Roadhouse or have any contact with it unless Sam was in danger ("Born Under A Bad Sign"), so safe to assume the last time he's physically seen Ash would be "Simon Said"
So, if Ash didn't have the watch at that point, it has to be one Dean recognizes, and knows that Ash has acquired.
At first I thought it might be Dean's old watch (from the "Pilot" missing scene) and he might have given it to Ash after John died and started wearing his father's watch instead. However, Dean is still wearing the same watch from the "Pilot" missing scene. I can't find a cap from the missing scene, and my computer won't do a screenshot while the DVD player window is open, but Dean's watch in the missing scene has a round face with a black rim, same as the watch in "All Hell Breaks Loose, Part 1"
 (Yeah, I can't believe I'm looking at that cap and thinking about Dean's watch either. I must be in denial or something.) |
Then I thought it was maybe one of John's old watches, traded for info after John died, but the only one I could find in caps had a white face and a wide leather strap.
 Pilot Flashback |
 Home |
 Dead Man's Blood |
 Salvation |
Actually... it's still the same watch as the Pilot. John gets a hell of a lot of use out of a watch.
John wasn't wearing a watch in "In My Time of Dying"...
 |
 |
...and I don't see it in the caps from "Devil's Trap", so either he still had it in Devil's Trap and just never put it back on in the hospital, or, in addition to torturing him, tying him down and possessing him, the demons stole John's bloody watch! Bastards! Buuuut... that's a question for another day. One with a great deal more liquor in it.
Anyway, Ash's watch was not John's watch, and John is either so good at looking after his watch that it lasted over 24 years, or he's just a cheap bastard. You decide.
Alright, so, new theory. It's Sam's old watch.
Because it looks a lot like Sam's watch:
 Sam's watch in In My Time of Dying |
 Ash's watch in All Hell Breaks Loose, Part 1 |
Sam's left wrist is camera-shy, due to the whole layering issue, and jacket sleeves that go halfway to his knuckles, but we get glimpses of it all through Season 2:
 Born Under a Bad Sign |
 Tall Tales |
 Heart |
 What Is and What Should Never Be |
The latest shot I could originally find of Sam with the watch is in What Is and What Should Never Be, which shot my whole "Sam gave Ash the watch in Hunted in exchange for the psychic kid info" theory in the foot before it even got running.
Aaaand then of course, Sam's watch shows up again...
 ... peeking out from under a sleeve in All Hell Breaks Loose, Part 1, nowhere near Ash's wrist. Not even in the same state. |
Which kicks another fine theory and half a plot-bunny out the door. Sigh. So, it's not Sam's watch either.
Leaving me with the only remaining explanation I can think of...
Ash got the watch by some entirely random means, and was so thrilled about finally owning a watch that he snapped a photo of it and pic-spammed his entire address book bragging about it. Which... I can almost see. Sort of.
So, now that I've spent almost an entire weekend looking for screencaps of people's wrists, do I actually think the people who set-up the "Dean recognizes Ash's watch scene" were paying this much attention to it? Um... possibly not... But really that's okay, because it's fun to try and figure stuff like this out.
So, what do you think?
*** SPOILER POLICY ***
*** PLEASE DO NOT POST SPOILERS FOR EPISODES UNAIRED IN NORTH AMERICA IN COMMENTS, THEY WILL BE DELETED. ****
The definition of spoiler for this journal includes info from Ads, Promos, Casting Details, Rumours, and anything which is not strictly derived by analysis of aired episodes.(I.E. THEORY ONLY).
*** SPOILER POLICY ***
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
Dude...someone eneds to write that.
no subject
no subject
You are entirely too cute.
no subject
no subject
And hey - my mom's had her watch since she was a nurse and that was over forty years ago so - i can see John having the same watch for years and years.
I wish that the props/costume people would be more observent, though - what ever happened to the ball chain *dog tag chain* we could just glimpse under Dean's shirt in...ummm...oh hell. The ep where Sam buries the dog tags?
Interesting post!
no subject
Oh totally. It was so very blatant, and so very "WTFWatch???" that it's gotta be, especially since the hand it was on in the ruins was the opposite to the hand Ash wore it on. If Kripke and co didn't plan that deliberately, they have a whole summer of noticing the fans pointing out the production error and making plans around it. I'm betting he shows up and is is some way evil, because after what Kripke did to Ava, Ash would be cake. "Folds like a cheap suit." as Ellen said.
And hey - my mom's had her watch since she was a nurse and that was over forty years ago so - i can see John having the same watch for years and years.
Yeah, but it looked like it was in awfully good condition for the number of scraps with assorted entities John's likely been in. Unless he's in the habit of taking off his watch before he goes toe-to-toe with a werewolf or whatever. :-)
I wish that the props/costume people would be more observent, though - what ever happened to the ball chain *dog tag chain* we could just glimpse under Dean's shirt in...ummm...oh hell. The ep where Sam buries the dog tags?
Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things. Jensen Ackles was wearing the exact same clothes and necklace, minus the amulet, to some kind of presentation thing around the same time period as they would have been filming, so I don't know if it was supposed to be part of the costume or not. Either that or they were so pressed for time they stuffed him on the plane without letting him change out of costume, because if I recall, the pants were a bit dusty like he'd been kneeling down in dirt (at the graveyard) and he had those boots. It's definitely something to ponder to try and fit into the character though. :-)
Interesting post!
Thank you! :-)
no subject
*rails*
I dunno 'bout the watch thing - the boys and John are oddly scar-free, so i kind of think that he doesn't get toasted on a regular basis. Plus, i wear rings on every finger of my left hand, and have for *years*. Never take them off, and i go camping and such. They're fine. So if you're careful... Maybe he's had to replace the band a few times...
Huh, didn't know that about the clothes - i don't pay a lot of attention to the 'real life' side of things. Interesting... I want him to have been wearing John's *other* set of dog tags, since they give you two...
:)
no subject
One thing that catches the eye is: ASH was the one who told Dean to go to the Roadhouse in the 1st place and I'm probably hallucinating here, since it's almost 3 in the morning (damn you 4 the number of interesting things you write here :) )- but, what if HE was the one who wanted everybody thinking that he was dead?
no subject
The watch was included in the show as a way of 'proving' Ash was dead, but you are right, especially considering the watch was on a right hand after the fire, Ash could have given it away to plant 'proof' of his death, or he could have traded it for something to get away, and be living incognito somewhere trying to stay out of the whole mess.
I wrote a fic (that's totally AU because there's no pretzels mentioned) When the Fiddler Stops with a theory I had between AHBL 1 and 2 about the watch. Ash isn't evil in it, though. But he swears a lot :-)
If I was Kripke and the writers, even if it wasn't the original plan, I'd bring Ash back for an episode, and have him either be completely evil, or an unwilling dupe of the demons, trapped or forced into cooperating, or just out and alive, just because having the watch be on the wrong hand in the wreckage of the Roadhouse opens up a lot of possibilities that would be fun to play with.