caffienekitty | SPN Reaction: Reaction to 3.09

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SPN Reaction: Reaction to 3.09

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Reactions to Episode 3.09: Malleus Maleficarum

What I know or have seen prior to the episode:

-Title is either "Malleus Maleficarum" or "Witch Hunt". I suspect it will air as the latter because the network thinks its audience won't know or be able to find out what the "Malleus Maleficarum" was. It's online in full searchable text at malleusmaleficarum.org, by the way. Basically the medieval witch-hunter's manual.
- A tiny bit of the opening of one commercial, of girls sitting around a table?
*something that may be a spoiler for a future ep redacted*

From this I am pretty sure that:

-A group of college or high school girls will get in over their heads playing around with some variety of 'witchcraft'. I was kind of hoping for a 'ghosts of the Salem witch trials' thing, but from the shot in the commercial it looks like they're going the 'dangerous, experimental idiot' route. This might be handled well or poorly; either way it's going to be interesting to see Wiccan fans' perspective on what falls out tonight.
*Theory based on something that may be a spoiler for a future ep redacted*

Anyways, that's what I knew or suspected as of 9:20 AM today.

After viewing:

Man, was I ever off base! They even let it air as "Malleus Maleficarum". Cool. I forgot this is also the episode I'd heard would be making many people hate Ruby. Anyway. Gonna need some time for processing on this one. Basic initial reactions:

-Bobby! I miss Bobby! Where's Bobby?

-What the hell is it with Kipke and yanking out people's teeth? Does he have a dread fear of dentists?

-Yay for the bucketing Lower Mainland rain making a cameo appearance rather than being adjusted out in post-production with filters and bug noises! Yay rain! Woo!

-They snuck that 'Not Wicca, "witchcraft"' dodge in there awfully fast. Glad it was there, though.

-Omigawd I don't think an ep has ever made me feel more like puking. I'm so glad I didn't get a burger for dinner. Omigawd.

-SAM'S MINI-TORCH!!!! YAY!!! That's the stuff! TOOLS! Those things rock!

-It's a quibble, but people don't die that fast from slit wrists. Also, not enough blood. Not that I'm a big fan of gallons of blood, just there needs to be more to make it believable. Just saying.

-"That's a curve ball." Hee! *pats Dean*

-Amanda's spell book was a scrapbook, wasn't it? Like the kind they sell to fill with five dollar sheets of paper and little beads and things for decorating around photos? Very practical to have the plasticised pages, but as far as scrapbooking goes, kind of dull. Needs some coloured cutouts and glitter. *nods*

-Dean with the rabbit. 'Why does the rabbit always get screwed?' Aw. I can't explain, just aw.

-That "determination" poster in the background, any chance that's a shout out to the stacks of motivators people over on TWOP have made?

-Blonde pottery woman is very annoying.

-"Book of Shadows" Heh. Why do I feel like I heard Demian the recapper over at TWOP shriek in dismay when that came up?

-The face off between Sam and Dean and the trio, very cat and mouse. Coolness.

-"Victory Garden"? Wow. That's an old term. If I recall correctly it refers to the World War II practice of people plowing under their lawns and flower gardens to grow produce to stretch rationing in wartime Britain. Wonder where Dean picked that one up?

-Ah hah! Ruby messed with the Impala, she must die now. She must be able to turn that 'messes with electrical fields' effect on and off, because she didn't do it the last time she was around, I don't think.

-Dean vs Ruby in front of the Impala. Niiiiiice. I would have been thrilled with that animosity sticking around for another couple episodes. Yay, shouty, family-defensive Dean!

-"She could just stop saving our lives." Uh..... who in the what now? She helped rebuild the Colt, yes (Nice inclusion of the possibility that she's monkeyed it so it can't hurt her), and she knifed some guys in Mag7... am I missing something?

-"More like Dean." Being, to Sam, someone who is less concerned about human life? Hm.

-Dean in pain, wow! Haven't had that for a while! Very nice subtle build up to it too, with the rubbing at the ribcage beforehand.

-Sam slashing the mattress where obviously the little bag thing couldn't be unless whoever put it there re-upholstered? Great sign of the sheer abject panic Sam's in. Sam's not even thinking straight, just "Dean's hurting! Must make it stop!"

-The remnants of that room will be an interesting thing for the hotel owners to find. Blood on the carpet, trashed. Also the remnants of the other death scenes, for the local authorities, because I wouldn't trust Ruby to clean up a hairball, let alone a multiple homicide. I kind of thought her idea of 'cleaning up' might be to wait til the husband got home to make sure he was dead too.

-Determined panicked angry Sam driving. Woo!

-Ruby saving Dean, okay, fine. Scoring snark points off him? Eh. Not so much. What the hell did she make him drink, though?

-"We're just trying to get her a lower mortgage rate!" BWAH!!

-The whole witchcraft/demon power/technical stuff thing seems a bit scrambled on first view. Will have to let it settle and see what falls out.

-Stopping the bullet... eh... chalking that up to the rebuilt Colt having diluted mojo or something. YED dodged it in smoke-form, but actually using a demonic power to act on the bullets, I say is due to these being made differently than the original ones, and heavily Ruby-influenced.

-I liked the actress for Tammy. She had some great facial expressions, and did snide evil well, I thought.

-New leader in the West, hunh? I totally want it to be Meg. Since apparently Ruby isn't Meg... or not... I just want Meg to show up again.

-Crushing Sam into the wall leaving a gigundous Sam-sized divot. That's different. :-)

-Ruby's backstory.... um. Can I say "DO NOT WANT!" or would that be juvenile and whiny? I liked the character of Ruby, regardless of any quibbles I had with the portrayal. I did. But now that she has this stupid "I sold my soul for a handful of dark magic and now I'm a demon, poor widdle me" backstory, I don't like her at all. Unless it's all a lie, in which case yay for mindgames!

-Ruby has a bad poker face. She had a massive 'tell' in her facial expression just before she hoisted the knife. Unless that was part of the plan...

-Not fond of the physical fight between Ruby and Tammy. I mean yeah, it's cheaper than effects, I guess, but they're demons, not Junior High cheerleaders. Instead of more throwing demonic power around, they beat up each other's meat puppets, which we know has little effect on the demon inside. Y'know, unless the whole thing was staged to make Sam and Dean believe the backstory, etc, and ultimately to try to get Dean to help push Sam over the edge and into the dark side. Or something.

-Yay for the last girl of the group fighting back... but... if she was being granted her power by the demon in Tammy, how did she get the power to attack the demon giving her the power? Unless it was all a set up, yadda yadda, see above.

-Tammy coughs up long silver pins. Heh. Cute. One of the "ways to spot a witch" (possibly in the Malleus Maleficarum) involved pricking with a silver pin to see if the person bled.

-Wow. Dean's got some serious suppressed rage issues, with the crazy stabbing he's been doing lately.

-Conquistador Motel. Cute. Verrrry cute. Better than the Inquisition Inn, I guess. :-P

-The whole "Demons were once people" thing.... interesting concept, but.... I need processing time on that one, I think. Unless of course Ruby's lying about that too, to ramp up Dean's stakes in a ploy to get him to help turn Sam to the dark. Which... eep.

Anyway, will require processing, or possibly some denial and retconning.

Just a reminder, 'no spoilers for future eps' includes any mention of anything in any promos for next week airing on the CW. The City TV feed I watch doesn't have promos.

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

"More like Dean." Being, to Sam, someone who is less concerned about human life? Hm.

Well in season one Dean was more willing to kill humans who used supernatural mean to kill. He was willing to kill the Reverend in Faith when he thought he was controlling the Reaper. He was willing to kill Max Miller when he found out Max was using his powers to kill. Sam stopped him both times and both times fate (and the writers) intervened to make killing humans unnecessary. Now they are in the middle of a war. The last time Sam extended mercy to a human and didn't kill him Jake LITERALLY stabbed him in the back. The nature of the war, and Dean's impending death have made Sam reassess his views on killing humans involved in using the supernatural to kill. After all, he didn't suggest killing them to stop them from getting their lower mortgage, he suggested killing them after they had killed one woman and tried to kill her husband. In war priorities change as they do when your brother's life is on the line.

yay for another CityTV viewer in the ranks :)

and yes this episode needs some massive ammounts of toying with in my head too... it opens up sooo many doors to things that COULD happen (or very well couldn't!)

I want Ruby to be lying.

-What the hell is it with Kipke and yanking out people's teeth? Does he have a dread fear of dentists?

Guh. Dunno, but I wish he'd EFFING STOP ALREADY. *shudders*

Great sign of the sheer abject panic Sam's in.

Awww. Good point - that hadn't occurred to me. *pets panicked Sam*

What did you think overall? I thought it was okay, but not nearly as good as many others we've seen.

-What the hell is it with Kipke and yanking out people's teeth? Does he have a dread fear of dentists? This just had me laughing.

I hadn't thought about Sam's panic making him not act rationally but I think you raise a really good point with it.

I get that, it just for some reason seemed to me like Sam was being a little over-blunt in his interpretation of Dean's actions, somehow. I don't know, I'll have to watch it again with a fresh brain.

CityTV Rocks! Except when it doesn't. Does the audio feed go wonky on the Toronto CityTV feed too, sometimes?

My brain hurts from the toying. There have been a few "by the way, this is how the world/the character's history goes" things in the past couple eps, and I feel like my gears are stripping trying to wedge them into what I thought was canon. Just needs more thinking time for me, which is never a bad thing.

Oh hell yeah.

Overall, I think it was okay too. I wanted a lot more of the antagonism and shouting between Ruby and Dean because damn that was awesome, and having all that animosity resolved by the end of the ep was very annoying. Especially with the 'she's not like the other demons' stuff, which still bugs me. Yeah, not as good as others for sure. But not bad.

Seriously though, Kripke's got teeth issues. Maybe he wore braces as a kid.

Sam panicking was what I saw. At first he's trying to find the thing, looking in sensible places, then gets panicky and starts looking in ludicrous places, then gets desperate and charges out after a group of mostly human people with the Colt, leaving his brother bleeding in the hotel room.

Poor Dean. He was probably figuring this could be a premature end to his year and Sam tears off and leaves him to (possibly) die alone. That had to suck. Sam could have picked him up and put him in the Impala and driven away with Dean, after all.

Or maybe I just want to see Sam fireman-carrying Dean. Hm.

not usually.... I'm watching it on the Vancouver feed now (because i have night class and miss the toronto show completely!) lol

true enough.. i think i'm done thinking about this episode lol (see supernatural tv community or my journal for why lol...)

Ah. Yeah, Dean comes out with a lot of things like that. :-/ From Wendigo's "You want some white meat, bitch?" to the recent "Could you be any more gay?" in Bedtime Stories. I think it's the writers trying to present Dean as someone raised among very rough and unsavoury people and completely un-politically correct, but at the same time, they're stepping on a lot of audience toes when they throw in some of the things they do without considering the full ramifications for people watching. :-/

That line didn't hit me as hard, though, as the 'wise old Native guy' stereotype character in "Bugs" in the first season. That was seriously offensive to me, and it was a character, not anything Dean said. One of the many reasons "Bugs" nearly put me off the show entirely back then.

hmmm yeah if it had been Dean I probably would have shrugged it off, but it was SAM! (and that surprised me :|)

see, that didn't bother me as much... but yes it was indeed a stereotypical portrayal...

well i'm definatly not scared off the show, but it was just one of those "WHAA!?" lines for me lol

Or maybe I just want to see Sam fireman-carrying Dean. Hm.
Oh yeah, I'm with you 100% there. ;-D

Sam? Hunh. I really must have zoned out during that part of the episode then. In that case, I'd chalk it up to the writers trying to push the "Sam is trying to be more like Dean" thing with non-PC dialog.

Heh, Sam starts spouting culturally insensitive lines, and Dean professes empathy for bunnies. It really is the end of the world ;-)

yeah someone pointed that out over on SN_tv and I guess that makes sense... but I'm a little sticky on the "in order to be Dean I must speak like him" part.. I get the acting like him... but *shrug* we'll see how the next *counts* 3 *tear* episodes go lol

and yes Dean professing empathy for bunnies was HIlarious.. and so is your icon btw :)

This one? Hee. The cap is from Devour, and I had far too much need for a bogglement icon not to make this one :-)

Hm. From a character POV, I think, maybe the "speaking like Dean" is part of Sam's apparent grander 'hardening himself for the war' thing, distancing himself from his more socially aware side by any means available to him. Kind of trying to forcibly derail any part of him that thinks about stuff like whether what he says is culturally offensive or not to try to also derail the part of him that hesitates to pull the trigger on something that looks human. Like the way in 'Bad Blood' he deliberately watched Dean decapitate that vampire girl in the start. Which is a frigging scary thought, if it makes any sense at all.

Did Sam actually watch that??? I'm going to have to go check that out now

But yeah, on the surface, I guess you begin to replicate the most pronounced features of a person if you are going to copy them...and Dean being vulgar is certainly at the top of the list...

*sigh*

I just want it to be next thursday already so we can see more :)

Yep. He turned toward the room, rather than away, and did the flinch thing. Creeped me the hell out and I wasn't sure why, but I think now I know. Yikes.

I just want it to be next thursday already so we can see more :)

I almost want them to ration out the remaining episodes, like put one every two weeks, because after 3.12 has aired, unless the writer's strike ends and Kripke and co can pull a miracle out of their hats in Vancouver, there will be no new episodes, and possibly not even re-runs for about 28 weeks.

*whimpers*

EEEWWW 28 weeks?! ugggggghhhhhhhhhhh

I just have to keep reminding myself that no new tv SHOULD equal at LEAST a marginal increase in my marks at school... lol I keep trying to look for the silver lining...

Heh. Oddly, I now have the unshakeable image of Jared airplane-spinning Jensen. I think I need more coffee. :-)

I know! It's a scary, scary, prospect. On the upside, if you start at the pilot the week after 3.12 airs and watch two episodes a week without skipping any, that will take about 28 weeks too. *clings to DVDs*

*also clings to DVDs*

yes.. that doesnt sound... SO bad... or it could be worse...or OMG WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO!!! lol

*looks at icons*

I seriously need some new icons... im really lacking in that department *kicks LJ for only allowing me 15!!*

...and squealing "WHEEEEEEEEEEE" all while he's doing it. Yeah, I could totally see that. ;-D

We'll survive. As long as the fandom doesn't go insane and turn on itself as often happens during hiatuses, we're like one big hiatus support group :-P

And trust me, no matter how many icons you have, it never seems to be enough :-P

hehe.. i try and stay away from most of the fandom over hiatus'... this summer was BRUTAL! (and admittedly, my first summer in fandom so maybe you get used to it??) but yeah.. BRTUAL! I went to my one thread over on IMDb (the OT thread version wherever-we-are-at-the-time) because we're all fun people and the thread DOES stay SN related, but also stays fun and light-hearted and avoides the crazies :)

but yes.. now I am icon-making because I don't WANT to do homework lol.. I decided I needed a frustrated/studying icon... so im going to attempt a .gif icon EEEP! wish me luck! lol

The first summer hiatus seemed a lot less wanky, I don't know whether that's because I wasn't as deeply enmeshed as I am now, or whether everyone was too busy flailing and OMFG-ing over renewal and the season one finale. Season 2 finale, no cliffhanger and everyone goes mental. :-P

Good luck with the icons! :-)

yeah maybe.. I don't know.. I actually started watching mid-season 2 so yeah... no cliff-hanger season finale for me yet (as I already knew the outcome of the one from Season 1 it wasn't that... cliffhang-y lol)

My friend on the other hand couldn't STAND the 2 hour drive home between the season 1 finale and season 2 opener LOL

and this is really my first fandom so yeah...

Maybe it's me, but I liked the mythology that all demons were once human, that essentially we're in this cycle by and of our own making. I like it a lot better than learning that the Apocryphal story of Lucifer and the heaven/hell war is true, and to my mind, it makes Kripke's statement about why there are no angels (to counteract demons) make a lot more sense. There are no angels because relatively few souls are so pure and selfless that they can transform into angels - or more accurately, because if they've lived a "good" life and died without choosing to remain as a ghost, they don't really go anywhere (back to ether? Reincarnation?). But if they contract to go to "Hell" then they gradually change, just as spirits that don't move on gradually change into something more and more malevolent.

It still doesn't explain why there's a Hell in the first place! Nor does it do jack for the witchcraft = power from demons, but the demon in qu. was supplying the chick's power and she used it against said demon.... But that could be random. I mean, if Tammy is distracted with Ruby and killing the Winchesters, perhaps another demon heard a call for help and said, "Oh, yeah, sure, I hate that bitch. I'll help you out."

One thing I am SO not a fan of, and it happens with Bela too, is this inability of the writers to balance the snark so that Ruby or Bela can have good snarky lines *without* turning Dean into their straight man. "You're the short bus," was SO LAME. Jensen delivered it in a funny way, because he's good like that, but it was a disappointing moment, because it seems like they always short change Dean in order to let the girls come off looking better.

Ah, well.

Oh, and "Victory Garden" was the title of a gardening show in the US on Public Broadcasting for something like 40 years. Like "This Old House" was the original "Do It Yourself" show, LONG before cable and the HGTV and TLC lineups, "Victory Garden" was the nationally broadcast, original precursor to every gardening and landscaping show out there. I'm sure that Dean has seen it in a succession of crappy motel rooms with no cable, flipping around looking for something better to watch.

Now, however, I am VERY worried about Dean since we have "confirmation" that Ruby has no ace up her sleeve and no intention of saving Dean from his deal. Wibble.

I'm not sure about the new demonology yet. It's an interesting concept, but right now feels a combination of awkward, (like it doesn't quite fit with established stuff, though I don't think I could point to any specific instance) and... kind of a downgrade of threat level. Like demons don't feel as big of a threat anymore because they were human once.

I don't know, we'll have to see what they do with it. There's too many holes right now, and the source of the data is hardly a reliable one. I do like your idea for where the last chick's power was coming from to attack Tammy. :-)

I also totally agree with you about the balance of snark. That was a definite case of stepping on a main character to promote a secondary character, and really made her look even more pathetic, because she's trying to score points off a guy who was just been hacking up his lungs and therefore arguably oxygen-deprived ;-D

Thanks for the datapoint on "Victory Garden" I would never have known that. See, show is educational! :-)

As to the 'confirmation' that Ruby can't do anything? I'm still sticking to the 'Demons lie' concept, and hoping that she's told him this now to try to force him into doing things her way. Maybe she can't do something to save Dean, but out of the whole of demon-kind someone's got to be able to do something. Like the one that's holding Dean's marker. Who might be 'rising in the West'. And I hope is Meg. Because I miss Meg. :-)

I'm still sticking to the 'Demons lie' concept, and hoping that she's told him this now to try to force him into doing things her way. Maybe she can't do something to save Dean, but out of the whole of demon-kind someone's got to be able to do something. Like the one that's holding Dean's marker. Who might be 'rising in the West'.

Yes, it's true she's an unreliable source, so she may well be playing Dean against his own fears. Which would be to the good. Since I agree with

musesfool that feeling any sort of fear for Dean's safety is a little silly, considering. One of the two stars of the show, not likely to be permanently killed off. But damaged? That's still a definite danger.

I don't think demons are less of a threat just because they were once human - and I like how it fits in with the concepts Casey was trying to explain (and even, if you think about it, Mr. Greed in Mag7). I agree it's a little clunky and clumsy, but I have faith in the Krip.

But damaged? That's still a definite danger.

Considering how damaged he'd be by the discovery sometime after Sam's gone all King of the Demons or whatever that Ruby duped Dean into helping subvert his own brother? Yowza.

I have faith in the Krip.

Oh yeah, of course. It's just some days watching the series feels like I'm reading a WIP. :-)

Ruby's backstory.... um. Can I say "DO NOT WANT!" or would that be juvenile and whiny? I liked the character of Ruby, regardless of any quibbles I had with the portrayal. I did. But now that she has this stupid "I sold my soul for a handful of dark magic and now I'm a demon, poor widdle me" backstory, I don't like her at all. Unless it's all a lie, in which case yay for mindgames!

*Word.*
And FWIW, victory garden isn't an obscure term in the part of the US I'm from, and it's definitely American (although I'm sure home gardens in response to WWII rationing showed up in the UK first). It's part of the whole good war mythology that gets taught in elementary school. (Although I kind of like the idea of Dean sleeping through early American history and then paying *really* close attention to, like, the history of the WPA. It seems to suit his personality.)

That's so bizarre. I'd only ever heard it in association with the UK before. Cool!

Heh. So if Dean woke up and paid attention to that bit, I wonder if he tried gardening to stretch the family (purloined) buck sometimes when they were staying in one place for a while? Or stuff like lettuce and green onions in little improvised plant pots that he packed around between hotels? :-D

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SPN Reaction: Reaction to 3.09

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