caffienekitty | Sherlock pondering: Three things from Series 2.

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Sherlock pondering: Three things from Series 2.

Well, I was holding off on posting this until I either had more coherent thoughts or had some vaguely-related fic read to post, but the fic is showing every sign of turning into an epic thing that I'll still be working on in 2022, and I doubt my thoughts are going to gain any coherence by pondering this stuff; they're more likely to lose it. So, in half-rambling form, I am posting...

THREE THINGS THAT MAKE ME GO 'HMM', 'WTF' and 'LOL' RESPECTIVELY IN SHERLOCK SERIES 2
which no doubt everyone else has already noticed, but this is what I think about them, sort of.

The Hmm

John made this post about Sherlock's death in June, which strongly implies that that was when the Fall occurred.

Also, it was a quite sunny day when Sherlock and Moriarty have their rooftop confrontation.

So... why is it snowing when Sherlock jumps??

Technical/Filming possibility:

-It snowed while they were filming.

Nope. Series 2 filmed between May and September of 2011. Regardless of what order the episodes were filmed, it would not have been snowing, unless there was a very freak snowstorm in London, which is possible. They might have gone back for a re-shoot of that entire scene in the winter months, but I doubt it very much. Even if it was snowing during filming, there are many filming tricks to hide or lessen the appearance of unwanted weather. So, large chance the snow appearing in those scenes was not accidental.

Internal to the world of Sherlock non-plot possibilities:

-The air conditioning unit on the hospital roof went nuts.

Assuming the hospital has air conditioning, and I didn't see anything a/c-looking on the roof where the showdown took place, it would have to be going really insane to land snow on the scene below. Could be ash from the chimneys Sherlock walks past, if some one was burning a lot of really fluffy paper, though that ash usually tends to be black, and the angle and pattern of the stuff falling was certainly snow-like. Hm.

-It really was winter when Sherlock jumped, but John waited six months to post that blog post.

Which means, since Hound was in March, that a year and three quarters had passed since the Hound case, and John's post is in June 2012, not June 2011, and the news thing regarding Sherlock's death (apparently it's regarding Sherlock's death, I can't see it in my region yet) is six months old. I don't think John waiting around six months to post that makes much sense for his character. He'd be thumping on the 'Sherlock isn't a fraud' thing as early as possible. I think. I don't know.

-Timeline fudgery.

The timeline is deliberately wibbly-wobbly in this show yet, but I don't think it's so whacked as to have it snow in June without a damn good reason.

Internal to the world of Sherlock Plot-related possibilities:

-It's a solid form of the suggestibility gas from Hound.

Mycroft knew about the gas after Hound, there's been at least four months development time since its discovery, and turning a gas into a solid is just a matter of temperature control. As the 'snow' melts, it resumes gas form, makes those around suggestible to a certain interpretation of events. And, and this is kind of cool, it's snowing on the roof too. Why? To make Moriarty suggestible too, since he's watching Sherlock jump. This would have been set up ages in advance, so it isn't any kind of conclusive proof that Moriarty is still alive, but nice that if this is what the 'snow' is, the possibility of Moriarty being alive is covered.

As for delivery, well, if Mycroft can't talk Harrod's into loaning him a few of their Christmas parade snow cannons, what's he doing being the British Government?

Actual likelyhood of all this? It's nigh-solid crack, so minimal. But not nil, I don't think.

SOLID Crack Possibility:

-It's not snow, it's feathers, the material component of a D&D Feather Fall spell. ...What?

The WTF

There is a split second frame of the face of the guy on the gurney. He doesn't look like Sherlock, but actually looks more like Mycroft.

External to show world reason:

-None.

There is no reason that couldn't have been Benedict on the gurney, or they could have blocked that shot of the face or used a different angle to avoid it. It could be they were just a little bit sloppy and left in a split second glance that they thought no one would notice, but come on. This is a show made by fanboys. They know how closely we're watching.

Internal to show reason:

-Mycroft, wearing a life mask of Sherlock, was the one on the ground.

Not likely. Too different, too easy to spot at close range. But maybe. Also, when did they remove it, and why would they do that before they got him under cover?

-Hound gas in flake form again.

Sherlock landed in the truck and was still in the truck as it drove off. Mycroft assumed his position, relying on the gas effect and John's distress (yes, I want to punch them both if that's true) to make the crowd suggestible to the 'body' being Sherlock. Again, likelihood minimal. Buuuuut.... not impossible.

It might seem ridiculously over-wrought that Mycroft would stand in as Sherlock, but if it could be managed, it might solve a major security issue, in that everyone in on the set-up of Sherlock's death would know that he was still alive, and increase the risk of there being a leak in the operation now in progress. If all the people in on it know is that someone is faking a death by suicide and Mycroft Holmes will be standing in as the jumper at the bottom while the package is whisked away in a laundry truck. Buuuut then there's all the media coverage, and anyone involved would be just as much of a security risk when they put the name to the incident. So back to square one.

At the same time, I doubt that it wasn't Sherlock as the 'corpse'. But the guy on the gurney doesn't look like him. ARG.

SO. Really, at the moment I HAVE NO FREAKING IDEA. Though if Mycroft did act as Sherlock's stand-in, Mycroft has ample leverage for Sherlock to never ever mock his weight again. XD

I'm going to keep thinking on the snow and the not-Sherlock on the gurney though, and may eventually post further exploration of them in meta or fic form. Or not and just quietly go insane until series three when it's all revealed to just be random clue-chaff of no import at all.

And the LOL from The Hounds of Baskerville:

Here's Dewer's Hollow, shot from just before the title sequence.

Here's a section of the woods above, brightened and cropped.

And here's the Tardis.

Hahahhahaha. Well, Moffat does do both shows now. Between this and Sarah Jane's aunt's book being on Sherlock's shelves, I really do wonder if he isn't just quietly prompting for more crossovers.

Crossover Reason:

-Maybe the Doctor stopped by to make sure aliens weren't at all involved in this Hound business, and then took off to let the humans fix their own mess? He has done that once or twice before, has he not?

Most likely reason for all the things:

Moffat is screwing with us.

I kind of like it. It's like a game. Clue or Herring. It's all a little fishy. ;-D

No Spoilers for Sherlock Series Three, and no OFFICIAL answers or rumors for any of this (if official answers or rumors exist) in comments please. This post is Speculation-only, based on episodes that have aired in the UK, and that are airing right now on BBC Canada and Canadian iTunes.

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Tardis, ha!!! I do enjoy your snow theory, and who the bloody hell is on the gurney? I have no freaking idea about any of this either, so I will just sit here and gnaw on my arm in frustration, seeing as I can't think of, or write an explanation..lol

I don't know either. People look so different sometimes between laying down slack-faced and standing up, it's hard to say, but the lack of those cheekbones is rather notable.

There's probably going to be a lot of time between now and Series 3, who knows what fic or theories may arise in the meantime.

Definitely looks like another person to me too, you are not alone.

I know, but since I cannot seem to write anything recently, I have my doubts.

*hugs*

We need to get together and go for coffee, hang around all day and write or whatever. Sometime. Somehow.

You've no idea how lovely that sounds, especially lately. And I always need to see more of you:)

*hugs*

Ditto. :-)

Hmm, I saw no snow. Where is there snow?

Hmm, that does not look like Mycroft to me. That also does not look like Sherlock to me. But fanboys or no, those two have a budget to meet and if shooting a tricky scene with an extra means meeting that budget they will have to do it.

TARDIS! I always lol at that.

In the gifs, there are little white bits falling at about an angle like this: \

It's much easier to see in the actual playback, but there are little white flecks falling on the roof, and then intermittently down on the ground below, all through the scene with John at the body.

I watched it and I'm thinking those are large rain drops filmed at a weird angle, because when you see Sherlock on the ground (and John on the ground for that matter) there isn't anything white or fluffy. They did use a rain machine for the filming and I wonder if the drops were just huge.

Could be also that my experience of snow is very heavy wet snow that doesn't usually accumulate.

I noticed none of the things you point out. I am the least observant fangirl ever.

I will say, wrt the possible shot of the extra, it could have been a sloppy mistake on their part, the way Irene's texts sometimes have "Mr." and sometimes "Mr". One would assume that's something they would have caught and fixed, but I'm inclined to think if one thing slipped through, other things might have, too.

Really, there were an awful lot of distracting things happening at that point, so not noticing fiddly little things is entirely understandable.

I have been "snowed" on in Florida by air conditioning units. It's really more like rain or drizzle than snow, but on film, it could look like snow—the big shiny drops look white, especially if they pool on a jacket. They don't even have to be particularly bad AC units, if the humidity is high. (There's also the possibility of a bird flying overhead at a very bad moment, if it's just in the brief clip with John. Had that happen to me. Don't want to discuss it further.) I don't think they could have reshot in the winter; wasn't Martin Freeman in New Zealand before there might have been any snow in the UK?

I think they may have left Sherlock's stand-in on the gurney. Way, way before the series was even done shooting, someone posted a spoiler photo of Benedict on a gurney, bloody head, wearing the coat and scarf. I discarded it as some sort of Moffat prank because it couldn't be after the swimming pool (wrong clothing), and it didn't seem like any version of Reichenbach I could imagine. Obviously, they imagined one I couldn't, and it was only after I saw the episode that I remembered that old spoiler photo. They probably had Ben on the stretcher sometimes, and a stand-in sometimes, and they may have ended up with a few moments of the wrong person. It wouldn't be the first time a show did that.

So I'm thinking of both of those as just minor production errors.

Then again, sometimes I think there was a substitution at the bottom, that that wasn't Sherlock that John touched at all but an actual dead body. The concussion he'd no doubt just received and the crowd kept him from getting too close a look. I don't think it looks like Mycroft. Brilliant Husband said, "Hey, is that Moriarty?" I think there's too much height difference for that to work, but who knows? (I also think Moriarty would have had far too big a hole in his head, but the writers and directors here aren't exactly tops on medical stuff—John was invalided out for a shoulder wound but never shows any loss of motion?)

The TARDIS, on the other hand—well spotted! That seems clearly to be a Moffat gag!

It's really more like rain or drizzle than snow, but on film, it could look like snow—the big shiny drops look white, especially if they pool on a jacket. They don't even have to be particularly bad AC units, if the humidity is high. (There's also the possibility of a bird flying overhead at a very bad moment, if it's just in the brief clip with John. Had that happen to me. Don't want to discuss it further.)

It really does look to me more like flakes than drops, and A/C isn't nearly as common to have in the UK, though I don't know about public or historical buildings, of which St. Bartholemew's Hospital is both. It's coming from a high angle on the roof too. At the same time, why go to all the bother of having an A/C unit pump out 'snow' for those shots if there wasn't a purpose to it? Of course the purpose could be 'to drive the fans mental trying to figure out what it means' but that's a perfectly valid purpose too. XD

It's in several clips, on the roof just as Sherlock jumps, and visible several times when John is beside the body at the bottom of the wall. Definitely not a bird.

I don't think they could have reshot in the winter; wasn't Martin Freeman in New Zealand before there might have been any snow in the UK?

That's what I think too.

Everything of course has a logical/production error possibility, it's just a hell of a lot more fun to consider other possibilities. ;-)

I think if there were an AC unit making "snow", they would have stopped it for filming unless they specifically wanted it! They would never have allowed it in John's close reaction shots - they'd have re-shot til they got it perfect.

It's not in there unless they put it in there, is my opinion.

Like with the TARDIS. :-)

I know Moffat has tweeted that "none of the fans caught it" - and I haven't seen anybody come up with the snow thing before this. That works in its favor. Also, I just LIKE it. :-)

I'm not so sure about The Guy on the Gurney. People look different lying down. Then again, Mycroft owes Sherlock a solid after spilling to Moriarty...

It's not in there unless they put it in there, is my opinion.

Exactly! There are so many tricks for hiding unwanted weather when filming things.

People look different lying down.

Seemed a heck of a lot fleshier, redder and with a higher hairline than Sherlock though. No pronounced cheekbones, and it'd take a lot to hide those. ;-)

Some of the production shots I've seen from when they were filming this scene show some pretty heavy rainfall. My guess is it's just rain and something about the camera angle makes it appear like snow (though I will totally agree that it looks like snow). Also, I've given up trying to keep track of the timeline in this show. I just hope that when they finally let us in on how he did managed this, it's suitably amazing.

I think we have most of the how among fandom theories. Moffat is just a big troll who's hoping to keep everyone going mental until Series three. XD

It's rain not snow I'm afraid. I remember when they were filming that the weather was terrible (we didn't have a summer at all last year) and there were shots doing the rounds of Benedict being sheltered under a brolly between takes.

Body on the stretcher looks most unlike anyone. I wonder if it is a clue or just random stand-in actor caught face-on. Roll on series three!!!

Very interesting post. But I do agree with those who say it's not snow but rain...plus, I seem to recall that the ground looked a bit wet...at least, it looked wet to me, so I assumed it was snow.

Where I am, about the same climate as London, our snow is very wet and behaves exactly like that, but it could be a mix or 'thick' rain. Still seems too cold for June.

Well, I was kinda surprised when I found out that TRF was supposed to take place around June, especially because of Sherlock's coat. But then I remembered that even here in Italy we've had times when it was pretty cold at the beginning of June, so, since London is usually colder, I thought it made sense. Plus, I think I've seen here some posts about the weather being particularly bad when Sherlock was filmed...

Very interesting, I never noticed anything. However, I have 8 kids.

True it doesn't look like Benedict and I don't see why they couldn't use him for that scene so it must be on purpose. Sherlock jumped into the Truck and someone else pushed a dead body off it just as he landed. John thought it was him because he was either drugged or stunned.

Well, at least you notice the eight kids......
Ask one of them, the probably have a pretty good answer.

The older 3 have all sorts of theories. I usually watch anything I really want to see when they are, theoretically, asleep. Unfortunately my 5 month old baby hasn't yet realized this!

There is something weird going on for sure, and it's fun to poke at. :-)

I know I've seen it mentioned somewhere that it was raining like crazy the first time they filmed the fall scenes, so they had to go back and do bits of it again at a later date. So yeah, that's deinfitely rain.

As to the gurney, who knows. The body is in a different position to the one Sherlock was in from the overhead shot of him being wheeled away as well. I'm inclined to believe that's a second-unit pickup shot and a stand-in visible by mistake.

As to the TARDIS, Moff tweeted about that not so long ago. He says that Sue says it's a lighting thing. (As in, a thing related to the lighting rig, not a trick of the light.) Though I've seen people argue it looks like the rear view of a lorry cab. Whatever it is, it amuses the heck out of me.

There are of course rational real-world explanations for everything, but I'd much rather play with the irrational fictional ones. ^.^

He says that Sue says it's a lighting thing.

Pft. Suuuuuuure it is. After some of the things Moffat has said in assorted interviews, I'm inclined to believe the opposite. XD

(deleted comment)

I don't trust that lot as far as I can throw 'em :-)

Yeah, after the whole 'ohhh I don't know if we'll be doing a series 3, you'll have to see why in the finale' trolling he was apparently doing before Reichenbach aired, anything Moffat says is suspect. XD

According to the blog (and I don't really regard any of the blogs as canon, as they had to delete Sarah and Molly's exchange about "Our boyfriends have gone missing!" when it turned out they hadn't) it is 2012. This Adler-related entry (http://www.johnwatsonblog.co.uk/blog/31december) begins "Just a quick update before we go into 2012." So either the Adler episode went on for about two years, or the first series was actually 2011 when we all thought it was 2010, or they made a continuity error, or they knew it was a continuity error and are just hoping no one will notice.

I have decided to accept June 16, though, unless it's definitely contradicted next year, because the idea of it being Bloomsday is irresistible and I have fic planned.

Re snow: whenever I photograph rain, it comes out looking like snow. Apart from being more vertical, whereas snow swirls around a bit as it comes down.

Why do I fall so hard for shows with so much wacky in their timeline? It drives me nuts.

I mentioned in my ridiculous huge reaction post in three parts that I figure the timeline wibbly-wobbly is a shout-out to the original books having a notoriously screwy timeline that book fans have been trying to make work since Victorian times, primarily because ACD didn't really pay that much attention to it. XD

Re snow: whenever I photograph rain, it comes out looking like snow. Apart from being more vertical, whereas snow swirls around a bit as it comes down.

I don't have access to Reichenbach at the moment, but I think there was some slight swirl-like motions in it in the scenes with John on the ground. Where I am, which has a climate very similar to the London area, we get a wetter, heavier snow that behaves exactly like that stuff did.

Also, if it isn't snow but solidified Hound gas, it would already be in the process of re-gassifying, so depending on the method of cooling, it might be in a semi-liquid state there. I like my crack theory, what can I say? XD

I was already wondering whether Hound gas might be deployed, so I'd go along with that.

Re dates: the blog must be wrong about 2012, because this screencap (http://sc.aithine.org/sherlock/203/09/sherlock-203-08029.jpg) dates Moriarty's acquittal to 20 September 2011 (it should be 19 September, as it appears to be a print newspaper, but they were careless and made the story read "today" instead of "yesterday"). Just to confuse the issue further there's a genuine Guardian story on the same page which Google suggests dates from 1 November - but that does suggest they intended the September date and weren't just pasting their story on to a real page without thinking about it. Then they have another story (http://sc.aithine.org/sherlock/203/09/sherlock-203-08048.jpg) headlined "Moriarty vanishes" dated 11 October 2011. Then we see John walking down the street with the caption "Two months later", he's taken to see Mycroft at the Diogenes, and told that there's going to be an expose of Sherlock on "Saturday". Which would suggest that the climax of the episode takes place in December 2011, and that the Christmas of A Scandal in Belgravia was December 2010 (as I'd assumed until the blog started talking about 2012) so this season runs from spring 2010 to the end of 2011.

Of course, it's all bollocks, because the episode starts with John and Ella and then says the next scene is "three months earlier", and if that's true the courts set up Moriarty's "trial of the century" in about a week, which is impossible.

Admittedly there's a precedent for written evidence on screen being rubbish in John's CV in The Blind Banker, which has him at school throughout the 1990s thus making him about ten years younger than he appears to be. But I think the blog is even less likely to be canon.

Yep. I've got a running thread of how screwy the timeline is through most of that reaction post I linked you for TRF that hits the points you mention. The blog is pretty integrated though, considering the blog posts John is seen typing in ASiB are posts that are up at the blog. I'd say the timeline is equally screwy between the two sources.

mm, I love your theories. I hadn't noticed the snow either - it wasn't just slashing rain was it?? Snow is sometimes used to symbolise insanity in TV Shows...
I think the Hound gas is the most obvious interpretation and was what I plumped for. Too many obvious / not obvious coincidences with the ending - like John being hit so he'd be a bit out of it, the laundry van in the way.
I'd like to say that is the answer BUT the writers will prob read all the chat about the programme and go with the something entirely different out of sheer perversity cos too many people would have got it.
I thought the way they got out of the last season cliff hanger - funny ring tone aside - was LAME so I hope this one is better.
You've really thought hard - love it!

Moffat, Gatiss and co. are nothing if not perverse. XD

(deleted comment)

Fans do fannish things. Glad it got someone to give the show a chance.

I thought it was supposed to be December when Sherlock jumped. On some newspaper article it says October 2011 (the one about Einstein being wrong) and then 2 months later.

The timeline is horrendously screwed on this show, I think deliberately as a shout out to the original ACD books having a notoriously labyrinthine timeline since ACD didn't pay much attention.

I'm inclined to think that John's June 16th date is closest because I really don't think John would have left his defense of Sherlock unposted for long.

Just to point out: that's rain, not snow. I think it's raining in some of the filming pics for that day as well (or it was mentioned in the set reports?). Yeah, London weather.

Edited 2012-02-07 00:00 (UTC)

So it's liquid Hound gas rather than solid! Bwahahahahah!

*koff*

Yeah, there's a logical real-world reason for everything, but the illogical fictional ones are more fun to play with. ;-)

I didn't bother reading all the responses, but I feel like there may be something to do with the dummy that was hanging in the beginning of the episode? Or would that be too obvious? Molly could've thrown it there....ah well.
I can't wait for series three!
BTW, when's that due to release?

That dummy was odd, but I don't think it's involved.

I can't wait for series three!
BTW, when's that due to release?

I don't think they've even started filming it yet, if the episodes are even written. Martin's still got the Hobbit to do, and Benedict has a bit in that, plus a few other things I think. Given there was about a 16 month wait for Series 2 and we didn't have absolutely concrete confirmation of an air-date until about 2 weeks beforehand, I wouldn't worry about it for a long while yet. Moffat said 'before the year is out' but he's notoriously full of crap. XD

I'd like to think that Moffat and Gatiss are lurking around the fandom chuckling evilly at the mayhem they've wrought for a while before they get down to writing the next series. ;-D

Seriously.... gosh I was pretty happy to have found Sherlock series one around November, and series two popped up so soon...yeah I was a bit spoiled.

Each episode is like filming a kid's film (time length-wise). Thanks for the info! :) Didn't know about Hobbit.

Hobbit is filming as two movies, and since Martin's playing Bilbo, it's going to take up a lot of his time. Hobbit actually rearranged its shooting schedule so he could go back to London and film Series 2 of Sherlock, which is very cool of them.

I don't think it was snow in RF, probably light rain. The sort of thing that might occur if it was damp overnight. Not sure what to make of the face on the gurney ... maybe just an unintentional trick of the camera.

It looked exactly like the wet snow we get around here to me, but eh, could be.

maybe just an unintentional trick of the camera.

I'm inclined to believe nothing in this show is unintentional, but we'll see whenever they get around to giving us Series three. :-)

I've already read shitloads of fanfics dealing with the aftermath and using most of the ideas you've mentioned to explain why Sherlock survived, so for me they all turned into my own private canon - and so I'm not capable of having a quality 'what if' discussion. For me IT DID HAPPEN EXACTLY LIKE THAT!!! so yeah, not much to say apart from yes, you're right ;)

Still, I decided to comment because I have to say THANK YOU FOR THE TARDIS! As you said yourself, this thing is made by fanboys! OF COURSE they'd hide Tardis here on purpose, the wankers! :D Thanks again, you've made my afternoon! :D

I've been avoiding reading fics and metas until I get my own head canon settled down about what happened (still settling!), so I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one thinking these things. :-)

The Tardis was just too cute, especially since there's the additional Doctor Who connection of Russell Tovey, along with everything else. It's the sort of thing the Doctor might pop by to check on too!

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Sherlock pondering: Three things from Series 2.

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